June 7, 2006
The Anglitics and Cardinal Kasper
Now, I make no pretense of having warm and fuzzy thoughts towards the Anglican-Episcopal Church and her many offshoots. Of all the Protestants, they are the worst, in the roots of their schism, in their theft of Catholic buildings, in their persecutions of the True Church, and in their solemn mockery of the sacraments. I can personally think of no sillier way of wasting time than dialog with them beyond saying, "look, your little play church is falling apart left and right. Repent and join the Holy, Catholic Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome, or go to Hell, enduring a lot of silliness along the way. And, yes, they have women priestesses in Hell, in fact, all of them."
Bingo. Think of the time saved.
Instead we get this sober, polite back and forth, back and forth, and our guys have to sit and grin and not blurt out, "you gits! All of this hogwash is so that slob Hank 8 could get a divorce. We know it, you know it, and all of this theological gobbledegook you keep shovelling at us is nothing more than half-assed attempts to make yourself feel better about your decision." And the Anglitics go on to do sillier and sillier things: ordain women, Gene Robinson, elevate women to their episcopacy.
It is beyond time to stop bothering with dialog. Cabbages would be more receptive.
But, I am not in charge of these matters, Cardinal Kasper is. And Cardinal Kasper is a much more patient and polite sort of fellow than I am. Here he is talking to the Coven of Anglican Bishops or whatever they are called these days. I admire his charity and all that, but at what point is this crap going to be seen as prolonging the misery. The Church of England is going to vanish in the air, and, since it is clear that they will not come back to the fold as a whole communion (indeed, how could they with women priests?), we should simply hover around with lifeboats to pick up the survivors.
The good Cardinal should reflect a little bit when he says things like:
it is the church led by the Archbishop of Canterbury who, in the words of the Windsor Report, is ‘the pivotal instrument and focus of unity’ within the Anglican Communion; other provinces have understood being in communion with him as a ‘touchstone of what it was to be Anglican’
These people are not about unity. If so, these talks would not be necessary. In reading the whole speech, it is clear that the Cardinal is proceding as if there were some hope that Canterbury might repent and return to the fold. His optimism is certainly praiseworthy, yet it is an optimism I do not share.
The best hope for the Anglicans is for them to leave their church and become Catholic. Period. And in this, we must strongly support those who came out of the darkness of Canterbury, whether into the Anglican Recension or the normative Roman Rite.
Yes, as the Cardinal says, "Our friends’ problems are our problems too." So let's stick with helping our friends with their problems, and let the enemy wither and die, so we can begin the enormous task of tending to our enemy's victims.
Posted by erik at June 7, 2006 10:58 AMErik:
I'm a lifelong Catholic and love my church, but I can't go as far as you have. The Anglican churches are far from perfect, but there is much good in them. There are too many Anglicans, living and dead, deserving of our admiration and respect to so blithely dismiss their traditions or their faith.
The Roman Catholic Church, casting itself as the universal church and the spritual home to all Christians (whether they know it or not), might learn a lesson or two from the catholicity Anglicans teach and practice. Anglicans and Episcopalians take great pains to embrace fellow Christians of all stripes, from Evanglical congregationalists to rosary-carrying Catholics. I have attended Episcopal services, and I was struck (and impressed) by the sermons, which draw upon Catholic popes and saints as well as Protestant theologians. I was challenged and inspired by what I heard.
Some Roman Catholic theologians have grumbled that, as a church casting itself as the universal faith, the RCC should welcome Lutherans and like-minded Anglicans to share communion with us. It seems to me that catholicity and ecumenism must go hand in hand. By contrast, Anglican churches do not practice closed communion, but invite any and all baptized Christians to partake at their communion rail. I doubt very much that the RCC would ever follow suit, but I would suggest to you that such a practice is itself Christian and catholic, and is deserving of our respect.
Many Episcopalians were dismayed at the election of a gay bishop, and some were dismayed at the decision to elevate women to the priesthood. I certainly would not have voted in favor of elevating a practicing homosexual to bishop (had anyone asked me), but I nevertheless must give grudging respect to those who had the courage to do so.
You do yourself a disservice, and sell yourself short, by condemning Anglicans to hell. The Anglican Church's relationship to Rome is a special one, born of a political--not a theological--disagreement five hundred years ago.
Posted by: Tom at November 6, 2006 3:09 PMWhen Cardinal Newman was asked what led him into the Catholic Church, he replied "Well, as an Anglican, I had finally discovered the doctrine of the Real Absence".So true!
Consequently, the so-called Anglican "Church" is not a church at all; has no priesthood (male or female);no episcopacy and no Eucharist or any other Sacraments.
In fact, the the tired and hilarious fairytale that Anglipagan seminarians seek out black market Holy Orders from schismatic bishops merely incurs a blasphemy and sacriledge more akin to Simony.
Mike H
Posted by: Michael Haring at September 3, 2006 11:44 AMNo, I am not saying that any individual is in hell or not, but we know that unrepentent sinners are in Hell, and so if a priestess dies without repenting of the faking of Holy Orders or the embrace of paganism, she is in Hell.
And while Hank 8 did want a decree of nullity, when he was denied it, what it is called is illicit divorce.
Come on, Dan, your Anglitic communion is imploding. Flee while you can.
Posted by: Erik Keilholtz at July 1, 2006 12:30 AMRead this a week after I returned from the anuual Anglican Use conference--where I wanted to run up behind some of the wavering Anglican priests and yell, "Quit sticking your toes in the Tiber. Just JUMP! It ain't gettin' any better where you're standing! Look at all of us who have already DONE it! Good heavens, man, JUMP!!!"
But then, that's why I'm not in charge.
Posted by: Mama T at June 13, 2006 2:22 PMNo, tell me what you really feel, Erik.
Posted by: Bernard Brandt at June 8, 2006 12:14 PM